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#6 Thiago Alcántara

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  • Per Ciljan Skjelbred is on 4th place on that list lmao. It's like 4-5 weeks into the season anyway. Look at that list when 60-70% of the games are played to get a better look at how it is.

    Besides, the German press seem awfully harsh on Thiago from what I've noticed. Kai Havertz has been average the last few games, but he's still getting good or decent grades.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DonAK View Post
      Per Ciljan Skjelbred is on 4th place on that list lmao. It's like 4-5 weeks into the season anyway. Look at that list when 60-70% of the games are played to get a better look at how it is.

      Besides, the German press seem awfully harsh on Thiago from what I've noticed. Kai Havertz has been average the last few games, but he's still getting good or decent grades.
      Shhhhhhhhh

      Shut up bro ... Thiago is trash and have no business starting for Bayern or any other big club. As long as his last name is Alcântara though... As soon as he change his last name to a German/Greek game he'll be world class

      Comment


      • Actually Kicker is the one to trust, they were always by far the most objective and reliable of sports periodicals not only in Germany but in the whole Europe. They never favored German players over the foreign ones (that's what Bild and other tabloids do) either. When a player plays great, they give him 1 or 2, when he's crap, gets 4 or 5. One of the few respectable, unbiased sports periodicals in the world (good luck trying to find one in UK, for example).

        But I definitely agree with Don that it's still very early in the season, Thiago (and all others who are underperforming in BuLi - or CL) has plenty of time to bounce back and make this season his.

        Normally I wouldn't worry about him, or any other player, too much. Though with Kovac, anything can happen. It's like the players are left on their own and have to manage their game and the mental attitude themselves.

        Comment


        • Interesting stuff. One reddit guy compilated top players stats from the last 4 seasons into a table. Thiago 16/17 season is in 7th place (from 100 positions!). Its a really good achievement, since 4 positions above him are occupied by Lionel Messi (as expected):



          Original post: https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comm..._2000_players/

          And he did another one only from the 18/19 season, and Thiago is ONLY BEHIND MESSI!



          Original post: https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comm...rs_in_the_top/

          Comment


          • Originally posted by franz View Post
            Interesting stuff. One reddit guy compilated top players stats from the last 4 seasons into a table. Thiago 16/17 season is in 7th place (from 100 positions!). Its a really good achievement, since 4 positions above him are occupied by Lionel Messi (as expected):

            https://i.redd.it/d4czrp48m7j31.png

            Original post: https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comm..._2000_players/

            And he did another one only from the 18/19 season, and Thiago is ONLY BEHIND MESSI!

            https://i.redd.it/p6od9tl3wfg31.png

            Original post: https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comm...rs_in_the_top/
            Not to take away from those Thiago BuLi seasons because he was indeed brilliant in them, BUT, there's few major, embarassing flaws in this guy's method. First off, the Shots and xGoals shouldn't even figure there, you only need Goals, the other two are stupidly inflating the statistics for the offensive minded players, especially those who really like to spray around (strangely there's no xBlocks or xTackles, I guess this statistician doesn't like defenders very much?).

            Next, the "General passing" which works massively in favor of midfielders. Thiago, as most midfielders (and many CBs) makes a shitton of passes each game. Most of them are short, no-risk passes in our half or around the middle of the field. In comparison, Lewa or Muller pass mostly in the final third. And what's baffling this guy's method literally shits on wingers, who, by the nature on their trade, have to play it risky - they make more passes in the final third compared to midfielders or defenders and their percentage of risky crosses or passes is incomparably bigger than any other position.

            Here, 16/17 Bayern season according to whoscored (who aren't the football oracle by any means, but are much more objective):

            https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/37/A...?stageId=13872

            See Robben at 2nd? Now look at that table you posted. Arjen had a stormer of a season, yet he's nowhere to be seen! There's Hummels at 19th, there's Muller and Lahm further down, and at 97th is Javi, who figures there, as you can see, thanks to his safe passing.

            Even funnier, here's the whoscored stat for best (top 10) BuLi players that season.
            https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/81...liga-2016-2017

            Robben again 2nd, so not too bad for an old dog right? (notice lack of Muller)

            Wrong! He was only a winger, who cares. Here's the 'best wingers in last 4 seasons' table:
            https://i.redd.it/0tjnszy0k7j31.png

            There's no Robben, no Forsberg either... Apparently Muller (at 50) was just a better winger that season. It's so strange that I never knew a single Bayern fan who would prefer to see Muller over Robben as a winger

            FYI guys, This is not an anti Thiago, anti Muller or pro Robben post, I'm just pointing out that some of these statistics, especially the fan made ones, need more pinches of salt when you digest them than others.
            Last edited by Chucky; 07-10-2019, 22:50.

            Comment


            • I feel like you don't quite understand what xG% and xA% means (since you're asking for xBlocks and xTackles).

              About the lack of some players (Robben, Ribery), he didn't collect their data. Forsberg is only there for one season (16-17). And i guess he put all players that were deployed on wing as wingers.

              Also, please, analytics are big thing that clubs are just beginning to grasp at (Bayern just begun in 2014 a partnership with SAP for this). With more data, the model gets better.

              Edit:
              Robben, Ribery and probably others missed the minimum league minutes requirement (2050 minutes played). Most Robben had was 1827 in 16-17, Ribery never came close.
              Last edited by L4nd3r; 07-10-2019, 23:46.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post
                I feel like you don't quite understand what xG% and xA% means (since you're asking for xBlocks and xTackles).

                About the lack of some players (Robben, Ribery), he didn't collect their data. Forsberg is only there for one season (16-17). And i guess he put all players that were deployed on wing as wingers.
                Naah I get what xG% and xA% mean, I didn't want xBlocks and xTackles, I mentioned them to point out that the guy includes some stats, while completely omitting the others. We are just left wondering, why did he pull these particular stats and decided to leave other out?
                But honestly, tell me, why there should be no xBlocks% and xTackles%? Are they less important than XG% and xA%? You could 'project' them just as you could project xG and xA, or any of those stats really. Should be a piece of cake for the stat gurus.
                My guess is, those projected defensive stats aren't attractive enough for Optasports or wherever this data was pulled from? When, like this guy, you set all this particular stats beside each other, you favor certain type of players, while disadvantaging the others. It's telling enough that in this guy's world there are no goalkeepers.

                Aren't you wondering why there's xG and Goals, and there's xA, but there's no Assists? This omission alone should disqualify this statistical leviathan.

                Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post
                About the lack of some players (Robben, Ribery), he didn't collect their data.
                Why? That's the key question here. The guy arbitrarily gathered a collection of some stats and presented it on reddit, and we should be in awe and take it as a revelation?
                Here's all opta glossary, so you can see what you're missing in these tables:
                https://www.optasports.com/news/opta...t-definitions/
                (yes he missed Assists (too old school?) and sadly, there's no xTackles - apparently opta aren't modern enough. Maybe in few years they will catch up)

                Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post
                Robben, Ribery and probably others missed the minimum league minutes requirement (2050 minutes played). Most Robben had was 1827 in 16-17, Ribery never came close
                I thought his requirement was 1710 minutes according to this
                https://old.reddit.com/r/soccer/comm...rs_in_the_top/
                ?? I assumed it was the same for the 'last 4 seasons' version (if it isn't then why the 2050 minutes)?

                Robben started 21 games that season, all in all featured in 26 in BuLi. That's quite a lot, when you consider one can only play in 34 games tops. Half of that should be enough to include him. This guy's 1710 mins divided by 90 (full game) give us 19, which is exactly half of the games you play... when you're in a 20 team league. But BuLi is 18 teams so 'only' 17 games. If my assumption is correct, then that's another flaw in this guy's logic. That would give all those top 5 leagues with 20 teams (La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1 and Premier League) the leverage over BuLi. If our guys played in those other leagues, they most likely would feature more prominently in these tables.

                As it stands, Robben in top form doesn't fit this guys 'system' apparently.

                Doesn't matter how you look at it, what this reddit guy did just doesn't hold water.
                Last edited by Chucky; 08-10-2019, 04:03.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DonAK View Post
                  Per Ciljan Skjelbred is on 4th place on that list lmao. It's like 4-5 weeks into the season anyway. Look at that list when 60-70% of the games are played to get a better look at how it is.

                  Besides, the German press seem awfully harsh on Thiago from what I've noticed. Kai Havertz has been average the last few games, but he's still getting good or decent grades.
                  You do realise of course that you talk about a 20 y.o kid and a man with huge experience in club and national level, that some of you dare to claim he is Bayern's No1 star player.
                  That said, we expect from him to take the team by the hand (like Messi) and lead them to CL trorhy

                  In your dreams!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by FernandoBR View Post
                    Shhhhhhhhh

                    Shut up bro ... Thiago is trash and have no business starting for Bayern or any other big club. As long as his last name is Alcântara though... As soon as he change his last name to a German/Greek game he'll be world class
                    Great argument but you've said it before.....

                    Say it one more time and you get a cookie

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Grey View Post
                      He, like nearly ever midfielder we’ve purchased in the last 10 years, took a couple of seasons to gel. So what?

                      The recent 2-7 really shows with complete finality how little weight your opinion on Thiago is owed. At this point it’s as fringe and divorced from reality as a Trumpist. As such, there’s no benefit arguing with someone so out of touch on this issue.
                      My opinion tells me that Spurs made 2 shots on target and finally draw to Olympiakos despite the fact they were 0-2 ahead at September 18th.

                      At September 21st they lost 2-1 from Leiceter.

                      At September 24th they draw 0-0 to Colchester and finaly lost at penalties.

                      At October the 1st they concede 7 times from us in their own stadium and finaly the lost 3-0 from Brighton at October 5th.

                      That's my reality....plus you go nowhere with midfielders like Ndombele, Winks and Sissoko.
                      Even my grandma would dictate the midfield with opponents like these!

                      Comment


                      • CL finalists. Literally everything else you wrote is moot. The sheer enormity of the effort you put into writing Thiago out of his place is indicative of a sick and obsessed mind. The good thing is, you only show up when there's a recent game to prove your point. As Thiago palys a bad game once or twice a year, I'll see you again in 2020.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Grey View Post
                          CL semi-finalists. Literally everything else you wrote is moot. The sheer enormity of the effort you put into writing Thiago out of his place is indicative of a sick and obsessed mind. The good thing is, you only show up when there's a recent game to prove your point. As Thiago palys a bad game once or twice a year, I'll see you again in 2020.
                          Actualy my "obsesion" is that Thiago is just a quite good player for the #8 and #10 position and not that good for the #6 position while most of you think he is a star player and probably the best or one of the best midfielders in the world.

                          Yet, it's my opinion that is sick and I'm even acused foe being a racist just because I don't fancy Spanish football as most of you here do.
                          Actualy I'm even sure fo rmany of you that you equally like Farca or even more than Bayern (that of course doesn't go for you as well).

                          As for your last assumption, the only reason for me not to show up till 2020 is if Thiago will be permanently benched till then.

                          Hopefuly he finally returns to Farca (where he deserves to be) and I won't show up not even 2020!

                          Comment


                          • The fact that you can’t tell the difference between fancying a BAYERN player versus fancying a foreign league tells me everything I need to know about your mindless hatred toward anything that’s ever glimpsed a single speck of Spanish soil. You are frothing-at-the-mouth unhinged when it comes to the sheer vitriol you level toward Bayern’s single best midfielder.

                            As I said, you only spew your indefensible diarrhea when Thiago has a bad game. When he has world class performances game after game, you’re absolutely no where to be seen. You will even go a year between Thiago posts because that’s all the opportunity you’ll ever get to criticize him.

                            Frankly it’s boring. You have nothing to say and no one who will listen.

                            Comment


                            • And people compared me with Lewandowski to Mavros with Thiago...

                              LoL. It's not even remotely close.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by FernandoBR View Post
                                And people compared me with Lewandowski to Mavros with Thiago...

                                LoL. It's not even remotely close.
                                Of course not, you're much worse.

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