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  • Originally posted by mavros View Post
    Τhat's Grey's conclusion, mate!
    I never ever needed to make a comparisson between the two of them.
    I just knew from the beginning Boateng had the potential to become world class while Badstuber didn't!

    For me he was just very lucky to play for Bayern like some other players did, although they didn't deserve it.
    I knew he never was a LB back, but the obssesion with him everybody in Bayern had this time forced them to fit him in the line-up one way or another.
    And as he obviously wasn't good enough as a CD they introduced him as a LB.

    The tollerance that our board had all this years on him and their expectations is outrageous.
    Doesn't it seem strange to you that all these years all Laliga and EPL teams have lured almost all our top palyers or at least there were rumors about their interest?
    All except Badstuber!

    You think that's coincidental?
    He at 19 years old played almost every match in his debut season, 2009-10. Most of them at left back, because Lahm wanted to play as RB and left a hole there to fill there and impressed everyone.
    Since there wasn't any other good option than Pranjić as LB, he was stuck playing as LB, but he was too exposed there.


    He had a peak value per Transfermarket of 18,7 million, at 23 years old higher than Boateng's at the same age.

    I'm sure if he hadn't torn his ACL he would've had transfers offers for him.

    Edit:
    Originally posted by mavros View Post
    When exactly, against which opponent and doing what?

    All I'm saying mate is that this very moment we're talking Badstuber is a possible candidate to play a CL semifinal in Madrid or Camp Nou, if Boa or Mats are banned or not fit.... and the fact me watcing my team being eliminated 4th time in a row for that reason is rather unacceptable.
    Because it's something even a blind kid could see!
    You are worrying for something that's still far from happening. The season haven't even begun yet and you are already thinking about a UCL semifinal...
    Last edited by L4nd3r; 16-07-2016, 20:30.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Grey View Post
      Badstuber started almost every game in 2012-13 until his injury. You seem to have trouble with your memory. In no stretch of the imagination was he a "rotation player."

      Holger Badstuber - Performance data 12/13 | Transfermarkt




      Just providing some much needed context for your obsession with lying about Badstuber. It's been what, 4-5 years now of consistent slandering? So far just today we have "Badstuber cost us the 2012 CL final" a match he didn't play in, "Badstuber was a rotation player" despite starting more than Boateng in both 2011-12 and the first part of 2012-13, what other revisionist gems are you going to produce ?
      1. I repeat again that I'll never said anywhere that we lost 2012 because of Badstuber. I just said we made the treble because he wasn't there.

      2. In 2013 he was rotating between the LB nad CD position untill God show mercy on us and he got injured.

      3. You know I can't beat you in this game just because you are a teacher of the English language and my English is below average.
      It's like lawyers do. The best lawyer wins no matter if the murderer is guilty or innocent.

      But you know that I am a fighter and I won't let it pass.
      Badstuber sucks just because he sucks, like Lell, Kraft, Ottle and some others did, and not because I have something against him.
      Plus he doesn't deserve to play for Bayern because he is a golden mediocrity, had two major injuries and didn't show any development in a 6 years period.
      He is dangerous when playing for us against any competitive Bundesliga game and all the CL knock out stages.

      That's what I'm seeing and I'm not going to change it ever!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post
        He at 19 years old played almost every match in his debut season, 2009-10. Most of them at left back, because Lahm wanted to play as RB and left a hole there to fill there and impressed everyone.
        Since there wasn't any other good option than Pranjić as LB, he was stuck playing as LB, but he was too exposed there.


        He had a peak value per Transfermarket of 18,7 million, at 23 years old higher than Boateng's at the same age.

        I'm sure if he hadn't torn his ACL he would've had transfers offers for him.

        Edit:


        You are worrying for something that's still far from happening. The season haven't even begun yet and are already thinking about a UCL semifinal...
        Impessed who exactly?
        In which game?
        Because the only big game I remember he impressed me, was vs Man. Utd because of how pitiful he looked while facing Nani.

        Let's drop it mate, just agree to disagree.
        Everyone in entitled to his opinion.
        I won't change mine and you won't change yours.
        So the discusion is meaningless.
        I only wish I'll never see him playing for Bayern again, unless it is for the yearly Paulaner game.
        Then I'll be ok!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post
          He at 19 years old played almost every match in his debut season, 2009-10. Most of them at left back, because Lahm wanted to play as RB and left a hole there to fill there and impressed everyone.
          Since there wasn't any other good option than Pranjić as LB, he was stuck playing as LB, but he was too exposed there.


          He had a peak value per Transfermarket of 18,7 million, at 23 years old higher than Boateng's at the same age.

          I'm sure if he hadn't torn his ACL he would've had transfers offers for him.

          Edit:


          You are worrying for something that's still far from happening. The season haven't even begun yet and you are already thinking about a UCL semifinal...
          I'm always thinking about a CL semifinal and the final two.
          And if our board was doing the same thing, be sure that we would have had more than 5 cl trophies in our closet.
          But till 2011-12 they were still believing and announcing in public that our main target was winning the Bundesliga.

          Comment


          • Man... you've got issues. Doesn't matter how bad a player is, i would've never hope or be thankful the guy got injured.

            He doesn't suck like Lell or Ottl, neither does Kraft(Rensing on the other hand...). What the actual fuck.
            It seems to me, that a player for you is great or he's mediocre/shit, no middle term.

            And everything i've read on Badstuber and even the people responsible for transfermarket seems to disagree with you. You are just wrong in saying he sucks or he haven't show any development. If 2011-12 season didn't happened maybe would be right, but he got his positioning issues almost fixed that season, saved our asses many times, too bad our team lost steam after January(we were Herbstmeister ) and we ended up with nothing to show for.
            Last edited by L4nd3r; 16-07-2016, 20:55.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by mavros View Post
              I'm always thinking about a CL semifinal and the final two.
              And if our board was doing the same thing, be sure that we would have had more than 5 cl trophies in our closet.
              But till 2011-12 they were still believing and announcing in public that our main target was winning the Bundesliga.
              Our main target still is the Bundesliga. And it should remain so, forever.

              Edit:
              And you know why? Because winning titles in a competition decided by most points shows consistency. In a knockout competition you can win by lucking out, like Chelsea in 2012. And i want us to win like in 2012-13, by being the best, consistently. Week in and week out.
              Last edited by L4nd3r; 16-07-2016, 20:55.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mavros View Post
                1. I repeat again that I'll never said anywhere that we lost 2012 because of Badstuber. I just said we made the treble because he wasn't there.

                2. In 2013 he was rotating between the LB nad CD position untill God show mercy on us and he got injured.

                3. You know I can't beat you in this game just because you are a teacher of the English language and my English is below average.
                It's like lawyers do. The best lawyer wins no matter if the murderer is guilty or innocent.

                But you know that I am a fighter and I won't let it pass.
                Badstuber sucks just because he sucks, like Lell, Kraft, Ottle and some others did, and not because I have something against him.
                Plus he doesn't deserve to play for Bayern because he is a golden mediocrity, had two major injuries and didn't show any development in a 6 years period.
                He is dangerous when playing for us against any competitive Bundesliga game and all the CL knock out stages.

                That's what I'm seeing and I'm not going to change it ever!
                You always explain yourself so much better when you're called out on it. Thanks, I appreciate this write-up. I don't think anyone can deny that you were right in 2011 when you predicted Boateng's rise. I've always agreed with you, but there's no denying that you led that charge, not me.

                As far as Badstuber, I and many others genuinely HAVE seen immense quality from him. Perhaps not the same as the potential you saw in Boateng, but enough that there is objective fact that can be generated here. For one thing, Badstuber was an extremely important defensive presence for us, yes even in Boateng's first season here. There's a reason that every single coach so far has chosen to start Badstuber when fit. You might not like Pep, but I know you had high opinions of both LvG and Heynckes. It's time to concede that maybe you don't have ALL the answers, even if you were clearly right on Boateng

                And for what it's worth, I re-read your post 3 times - you never said LB! You just said "rotation player"

                Comment


                • Huh, just did a funny calculation. Badstuber played 12 BuLi games in the 2012-13 season including the Dortmund game where he was injured), in which we conceded 6 goals. In the 22 games without him, we conceded 12 goals. It's not statistically significant, but the raw numbers loosely suggest that Bayern had a better defensive record in the 2012-13 season when Badstuber played, versus when he was gone.

                  Ironic.

                  Holger Badstuber - Performance data 12/13 | Transfermarkt
                  Last edited by Grey; 16-07-2016, 21:27.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post
                    Man... you've got issues. Doesn't matter how bad a player is, i would've never hope or be thankful the guy got injured.

                    He doesn't suck like Lell or Ottl, neither does Kraft(Rensing on the other hand...). What the actual fuck.
                    It seems to me, that a player for you is great or he's mediocre/shit, no middle term.

                    And everything i've read on Badstuber and even the people responsible for transfermarket seems to disagree with you. You are just wrong in saying he sucks or he haven't show any development. If 2011-12 season didn't happened maybe would be right, but he got his positioning issues almost fixed that season, saved our asses many times, too bad our team lost steam after January(we were Herbstmeister ) and we ended up with nothing to show for.
                    I never said I was thankful he was injured and never said I hoped too!
                    I only said "God showed mercy on us"

                    Your opinion is he doesn't suck, my opinion is he always was mediocre and now he sucks. Don't make circles on the topic.

                    Don't tell me that for me someone is great or mediocre/shit and that there is nothing in the middle. Mediocre is somewhere in the middle.
                    And that's where Badstuber stands.

                    There were some discusions here in BZ about Kraft being better than Neuer when he first came and I laughed my ass off about this and of course was accused by many members having the opposite belief.

                    Allow me to have a more valid opinion about the keeper position as I was playing as one of them for 17 years (2 of those at proffesional level).
                    I was the one stating Neuer will become the best goalkeeper in the world and Kraft followers were bashing at me then, just exactly you do now.
                    Kraft should have never be Bayern's 1st goalkeeper (that goes for Rensing as well, as you right on spot said)
                    Some people decided about this in Bayern and were completely wrong.
                    Why shpould I blindly trust their opinion?
                    Some people in Bayern decided that Hummels was shit....and they were experts. Why should I trust their opinion?

                    You said transfermarket once defined Badstuber 18M and Boateng less.
                    Go see the very same year what they valued Robbery and what some useless pricks from Laliga or EPL.
                    What makes their opinion valid exactly.
                    And if their opinion is so valid why don't you trust them saying that currently Badstuber's value is 3M?

                    Let me tell you some other "issues" that I also have....
                    Coincidentaly I was the one saying all this world class stuff about Boateng from the 1st year I saw him playing in Bayern shirt.
                    Some people also laughed at me back then and bashed me.
                    As a matter of fact I'm sure they will be feeling perfect now about this.
                    I'll never hide my opinion about any player and I'll never will, just because I know it's very rare to be wrong and because I'm playing/watching/stadying football and watching Bayern and Nationalmannschaft for the last 34 years.

                    I''l give you one more example about a potential Bayern target, Koscielny.
                    Some people think he is a world class defender. Some experts too.
                    I think he is an idiot and I laugh my ass off every time I see him.
                    I'll never change my opinion and I hope that we'll never have to know if I was right by watching him playing for Bayern.

                    Now please step back, hold your opinion, but you don't have any right to tell me that I have issues.
                    Show some respect!
                    Just because when I first kicked a ball you probably not even borned yet

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Grey View Post
                      Huh, just did a funny calculation. Badstuber played 12 BuLi games in the 2012-13 season including the Dortmund game where he was injured), in which we conceded 6 goals. In the 22 games without him, we conceded 12 goals. It's not statistically significant, but the raw numbers loosely suggest that Bayern had a better defensive record in the 2012-13 season when Badstuber played, versus when he was gone.

                      Ironic.

                      Holger Badstuber - Performance data 12/13 | Transfermarkt
                      Did you ever see that he was playing as a LB?
                      I told you 3 times already, you seem to ignore me.
                      Never mind, if you really think he is such a good LB hold him as Alaba's back-up.
                      I never argued about this!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mavros View Post
                        Did you ever see that he was playing as a LB?
                        I told you 3 times already, you seem to ignore me.
                        Never mind, if you really think he is such a good LB hold him as Alaba's back-up.
                        I never argued about this!
                        Playing as an LB and still keeping a etter defensive record than we were able to keep without him there, huh? You must really love Badstuber, you're just making points in his favor now

                        As a CB he conceded 1 goal in 4 games, which as far as I can see is the best of any Bayern player that year.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Grey View Post
                          You always explain yourself so much better when you're called out on it. Thanks, I appreciate this write-up. I don't think anyone can deny that you were right in 2011 when you predicted Boateng's rise. I've always agreed with you, but there's no denying that you led that charge, not me.

                          As far as Badstuber, I and many others genuinely HAVE seen immense quality from him. Perhaps not the same as the potential you saw in Boateng, but enough that there is objective fact that can be generated here. For one thing, Badstuber was an extremely important defensive presence for us, yes even in Boateng's first season here. There's a reason that every single coach so far has chosen to start Badstuber when fit. You might not like Pep, but I know you had high opinions of both LvG and Heynckes. It's time to concede that maybe you don't have ALL the answers, even if you were clearly right on Boateng

                          And for what it's worth, I re-read your post 3 times - you never said LB! You just said "rotation player"
                          I never said I had all the answers....
                          Nobody has!
                          Pep hadn't!
                          But I have the right to believe Badstuber was never good enough to be a Bayern player.

                          I will never explain this fact, about all the coaches starting him, but still make me more suspicious when I see the special treatment he recieves from our board.

                          I said that about the LB just after you posted transfermarkt stats, proving you that he was not starting as a CD.

                          Comment


                          • Meh, I wouldn't get too hung up on strict definitions of positions. He played very much like a left-sided CB. You and I both know he didn't have the speed or dribbling to do much more than that anyway. Saying he's a strict LB as if that means he played exactly like Alaba is very wrong. Even as a LB Badstuber plays like a CB.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Grey View Post
                              Playing as an LB and still keeping a etter defensive record than we were able to keep without him there, huh? You must really love Badstuber, you're just making points in his favor now
                              The fact that this record was made by Boateng playing as a CD, didn't even cross your mind, eh?

                              As a CB he conceded 1 goal in 4 games, which as far as I can see is the best of any Bayern player that year.
                              Without even checking it, I'm more than sure that Boateng was pairing him in those games.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by mavros View Post
                                The fact that this record was made by Boateng playing as a CD, didn't even cross your mind, eh?



                                Without even checking it, I'm more than sure that Boateng was pairing him in those games.
                                Of course it did. Don't forget, I've been on your side on this matter for years now: Boateng makes EVERYONE around him play better. But I don't think it's entirely one-sided when it comes to Badstuber. Boateng-Badstuber were the perfect paring for each other and I genuinely enjoyed watching them perform as a tandem. I'm a little sad honestly that you spent that time fetishizing only one half and totally missed the stellar performances of the other!

                                Comment

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