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  • Originally posted by Grey View Post

    If so, it's certainly not your eyes that told you that. Because the footage above is extremely unclear. In fact, there are not one but TWO defenders that it looks like he is exactly in line with.

    In most sports, there is an understood mentality that aggression (read: spectator enjoyment) should be rewarded when all else is equal. In a situation where the naked eye truly can't deduce the answer, the default must always be to defer to the offensive player. That's how baseball works, that's how American football works, and that's how soccer used to work - up until VAR it seems. This is an incredibly serious problem for the sport and it's something that I honestly don't see much yet written about.
    What if....

    Referees are purposefully making ridiculous calls like these, so people be fed up with the concept of VAR and demand removing it from the sport? Then they can be back to good old match fixing, ghost red cards and 2-meter-offside goals...

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    • Originally posted by Grey View Post

      If so, it's certainly not your eyes that told you that. Because the footage above is extremely unclear. In fact, there are not one but TWO defenders that it looks like he is exactly in line with.

      In most sports, there is an understood mentality that aggression (read: spectator enjoyment) should be rewarded when all else is equal. In a situation where the naked eye truly can't deduce the answer, the default must always be to defer to the offensive player. That's how baseball works, that's how American football works, and that's how soccer used to work - up until VAR it seems. This is an incredibly serious problem for the sport and it's something that I honestly don't see much yet written about.
      You think it's close because of the thickness of the VAR line (it's like this because otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it on TV), but he's actually offside for half of his heel.
      Last edited by L4nd3r; 10-01-2020, 10:25.

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      • Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post

        You think it's close because of the thickness of the VAR line (it's like this because otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it on TV), but he's actually offside for half of his heel.
        Oh wow, half a whole heel! A full inch and a half! If I can’t see it slow mo on my TV screen, then I can guarantee that the ref can’t see it in real life. In that case, there should only be one answer: he was NOT offsides.

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        • Originally posted by Grey View Post

          Oh wow, half a whole heel! A full inch and a half! If I can’t see it slow mo on my TV screen, then I can guarantee that the ref can’t see it in real life. In that case, there should only be one answer: he was NOT offsides.
          The slow motion doesn't matter though in this case. In offside you pick the frame the ball is leaving the feet, so everything is dealt in a stopped frame, yes, it's highly unlikely a human can see these kind of offsides, that's where the technology comes in to help, but there are still things to work out (in the Premier League they take way too long).

          Offside law has zero grey area, so if the players is a tenth of milliliter after the last defender, he's offside (we don't have the technology to do this, but you get my point). It's a small margin, but it's the rule, TBH, it's kind absurd they don't take into account the margin of error, anything that is measured has one.

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          • Originally posted by L4nd3r View Post

            The slow motion doesn't matter though in this case. In offside you pick the frame the ball is leaving the feet, so everything is dealt in a stopped frame, yes, it's highly unlikely a human can see these kind of offsides, that's where the technology comes in to help, but there are still things to work out (in the Premier League they take way too long).

            Offside law has zero grey area, so if the players is a tenth of milliliter after the last defender, he's offside (we don't have the technology to do this, but you get my point). It's a small margin, but it's the rule, TBH, it's kind absurd they don't take into account the margin of error, anything that is measured has one.
            Funny, we have 150 years of precedent of offsides ties going to the attacker and suddenly there's no grey area in offsides? Yeah, absolutely not. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to believe that. This utter myth that offsides is a binary is something that can only be justified ex-post-facto with the invention of VAR. And it's the monsterous change to decades of establish precedent without a single concern for how it cheapens our sport that makes me so goddamn livid about this. Why even bother with human palyers at all anymore - let's just replace them all with machines, since that's clearly your preference.

            So long as human beings play this game, there will always, always, always be a grey area. Fuck VAR and its knuckledragging implementors for failing to even consider this. But don't worry, I can promise you this: In 10 years, this won't be a point of debate. I'm just sad that it's going to take another decade for people like you to finally see reason, because only when you realize how broken you've made this game are you going to come around to seeing what the rest of us have seen for practically the entire history of this sport.

            From Wiki:

            One of the main duties of the assistant referees is to assist the referee in adjudicating offside[3] — their position on the sidelines giving a more useful view sideways across the pitch. Assistant referees communicate that an offside offence has occurred by raising a signal flag.[4]:191 However, as with all officiating decisions in the game, adjudicating offside is ultimately up to the referee, who can overrule the advice of their assistants if they see fit.[5]
            No grey area indeed!

            And then there's this damning little bit of history:

            In 1990 the law was amended to adjudge an attacker as onside if level with the second-to-last opponent. This change was part of a general movement by the game's authorities to make the rules more conducive to attacking football and help the game to flow more freely.[14]
            So, there's really no argument to be had whatsoever on this point. When a human referee cannot tell the difference, the attacker is ONSIDE.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Grey View Post

              Funny, we have 150 years of precedent of offsides ties going to the attacker and suddenly there's no grey area in offsides? Yeah, absolutely not. You'd have to be willfully ignorant to believe that. This utter myth that offsides is a binary is something that can only be justified ex-post-facto with the invention of VAR. And it's the monsterous change to decades of establish precedent without a single concern for how it cheapens our sport that makes me so goddamn livid about this. Why even bother with human palyers at all anymore - let's just replace them all with machines, since that's clearly your preference.

              So long as human beings play this game, there will always, always, always be a grey area. Fuck VAR and its knuckledragging implementors for failing to even consider this. But don't worry, I can promise you this: In 10 years, this won't be a point of debate. I'm just sad that it's going to take another decade for people like you to finally see reason, because only when you realize how broken you've made this game are you going to come around to seeing what the rest of us have seen for practically the entire history of this sport.

              From Wiki:



              No grey area indeed!

              And then there's this damning little bit of history:



              So, there's really no argument to be had whatsoever on this point. When a human referee cannot tell the difference, the attacker is ONSIDE.
              I don't really care about any of this, this is the opinion of IFAB chief.
              The general secretary of football's lawmakers, the IFAB, has insisted that "offside is offside" when VAR technology is being used "even if it is only a centimetre," after a week of controversy in the Premier League.
              Should they change the rules? Maybe. But point is, if a player is offside, he's offside, there's no margin of consideration not to be offside.
              Last edited by L4nd3r; 11-01-2020, 05:47.

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              • I realize that's his opinion, you're obviously correct with your description of how this game is being destroyed day after day. That was never in debate. My point is that, whether you agree with me now or not, the sport as a whole will either be destroyed 1990 WC style under this INTERPRETATION of the rule. In 10 years I promise you that there will be a "Grey was right all along" coming from you.

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                • Real Madrid sign yet another Brazilian sensation.

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                  • Real Madrid's depth scares me. They didnt had Hazard, Benzema and Bale for this final against Atletico, still Zidane built a Christmas Tree with Isco and Valverde in front of/alongside the classic Casemiro, Kroos and Modric midfield. All this having fucking James, Vinicius Jr and Rodrygo on the bench.

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                    • Ernesto Valverde sacked as Barcelona manager. Quique Setien takes over from him.

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