Go Back   BayernZone - FC Bayern München Forum > Football talk > German Football

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 28-05-2019, 01:19   #421
Grey
Free Cascadia
 
Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Rainforest
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by L4nd3r View Post
It's not really a derby.
How so? The Union/Hertha rivalry is very obvious in Berlin. And it has some very important historical roots.

Happy for Union, but sad for Gomez and Stuttgart of course.
BZ Staff Member BZ Squad member10
Grey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2019, 02:21   #422
Bayer
Wodan Heerst
 
Bayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Greece
Posts: 4,266
Likes: 1333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
How so? The Union/Hertha rivalry is very obvious in Berlin. And it has some very important historical roots.

Happy for Union, but sad for Gomez and Stuttgart of course.
He probably meant to say that unlike other derbies, this has more "recent roots" because back in the days of DDR Union's main rivalry was vs Dynamo Berlin, the club protected by the Stasi. Things eventually changed only after the fall of the Berliner Mauer.

But these days...East vs West. Ossis vs Wessis. Köpenick vs Charlottenburg. It's as big of a derby as it gets.
BZ Squad member3
Bayer is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2019, 08:51   #423
L4nd3r
Uli and Kovac RAUS
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fortaleza
Posts: 7,524
Likes: 850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
How so? The Union/Hertha rivalry is very obvious in Berlin. And it has some very important historical roots.

Happy for Union, but sad for Gomez and Stuttgart of course.
Union played in DDR-Oberliga, their main rivals are/were Dynamo Berlin.

I don't really think it has any historical roots, unless you're talking into east vs. west kinda thing. They only faced each other 4 times.
BZ Squad member27
L4nd3r is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2019, 09:06   #424
micky
Arp you ready?
 
micky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Rhein-Neckar
Posts: 6,073
Likes: 699
Yeah, there's no such thing as Hertha-Union rivalry, but it can be called a derby though simply because both teams are from the same geographic area, ie Berlin.
BZ Squad member22
micky is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2019, 14:15   #425
Grey
Free Cascadia
 
Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Rainforest
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by L4nd3r View Post
Union played in DDR-Oberliga, their main rivals are/were Dynamo Berlin.

I don't really think it has any historical roots, unless you're talking into east vs. west kinda thing. They only faced each other 4 times.
Have you been to Berlin?

A rivalry can exist without the teams actually playing each other. There's an enormous political difference between the two teams for starters.
BZ Staff Member BZ Squad member10
Grey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 28-05-2019, 15:23   #426
micky
Arp you ready?
 
micky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Rhein-Neckar
Posts: 6,073
Likes: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
Have you been to Berlin?

A rivalry can exist without the teams actually playing each other. There's an enormous political difference between the two teams for starters.
I've been to Berlin several times. The supposed rivalry's pretty much made up, most likely by younger Hertha and Union fans who were looking for "an enemy" and cross-town neighbors are always the obvious choice. So there's no real political reason or anything like that behind the so called rivalry, it's all because people want to pick a fight. The actual history between the clubs and the relationship between the older generation of fans are actually more friendly than anything else.

Hertha und Union: Warum der Konflikt zwischen den Fans sich verschärft
BZ Squad member22
micky is online now  
Reply With Quote
The above post is liked by:
Argeta (28-05-2019), L4nd3r (29-05-2019), Nils (28-05-2019)
Old 28-05-2019, 17:36   #427
Grey
Free Cascadia
 
Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Rainforest
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by micky View Post
I've been to Berlin several times. The supposed rivalry's pretty much made up, most likely by younger Hertha and Union fans who were looking for "an enemy" and cross-town neighbors are always the obvious choice. So there's no real political reason or anything like that behind the so called rivalry, it's all because people want to pick a fight. The actual history between the clubs and the relationship between the older generation of fans are actually more friendly than anything else.

Hertha und Union: Warum der Konflikt zwischen den Fans sich verschärft
None of this is mutually exclusive though. Yes, they are friends, literally from 1990 onward (thanks to a third, unmentionable Berlin club), but friendliness doesn’t mean there isn’t a rivalry. There is however an enormous political divide between the two, with Union being the definitive anti-establishment club, while Hertha represents establishment, capitalist West Germany. When I was in Berlin in 2012 (when both Berlins were actually in the same league), you couldn’t go one city block without seeing a reference to the Hertha/Union divide.

Rivalry goes well beyond nominal friendship. The East-West divide is going to be there no matter how collegial the fans are otherwise.
BZ Staff Member BZ Squad member10
Grey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 29-05-2019, 06:45   #428
L4nd3r
Uli and Kovac RAUS
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fortaleza
Posts: 7,524
Likes: 850
It's a local derby.

But for me, rivalries are reserved for when teams have some real past together. And like Micky said, there's no bad blood between clubs or fans (mostly due to the fact that the teams barely played against each other).
BZ Squad member27
L4nd3r is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 13:49   #429
mea95
Mea San Mea
 
mea95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rennes
Posts: 20,935
Likes: 2142
BZ Staff Member Most 'liked' poster BZ Squad member30
mea95 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2019, 15:58   #430
L4nd3r
Uli and Kovac RAUS
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Fortaleza
Posts: 7,524
Likes: 850
I've said it before, but players are generally clueless beyond their own teams.
BZ Squad member27
L4nd3r is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 09:51   #431
mea95
Mea San Mea
 
mea95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Rennes
Posts: 20,935
Likes: 2142
BZ Staff Member Most 'liked' poster BZ Squad member30
mea95 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 15:04   #432
Grey
Free Cascadia
 
Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Rainforest
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 2574
I don't understand the connection between the 50+1 rule and German teams waning in Europe. In 2012-13, when Germany teams were doing so well in Europe, people pointed the finger at the 50+1 rule for the reason behind their success. Now suddenly it's the reason for their failure. It's almost like it has little to do with either.
BZ Staff Member BZ Squad member10
Grey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 16:16   #433
Blackroze
BZ Member
 
Blackroze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 2,753
Likes: 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey View Post
I don't understand the connection between the 50+1 rule and German teams waning in Europe. In 2012-13, when Germany teams were doing so well in Europe, people pointed the finger at the 50+1 rule for the reason behind their success. Now suddenly it's the reason for their failure. It's almost like it has little to do with either.
I think you are mixing things. People were saying DFB's success in wolrd cup was associated to 50+1, because clubs don't have enough money and put emphasis on homegrown talents, thus helping NT. There is no way German teams being successful is related to low income due to 50+1 lol.
16/17 Predictions Winner
Blackroze is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2019, 17:49   #434
Grey
Free Cascadia
 
Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Rainforest
Posts: 21,303
Likes: 2574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackroze View Post
I think you are mixing things. People were saying DFB's success in wolrd cup was associated to 50+1, because clubs don't have enough money and put emphasis on homegrown talents, thus helping NT. There is no way German teams being successful is related to low income due to 50+1 lol.
Go back to our own BZ posts at the time: we attributed our success in part to the 50+1 rule, because it forced us to be financially healthy without a billionaire backer, therefore making our success sustainable. Now we’re attributing our failures to the same 50+1 rule.
BZ Staff Member BZ Squad member10
Grey is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-07-2019, 08:16   #435
DanaSchofield
I ran out of charact
 
DanaSchofield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,580
Likes: 729
I think to a certain extent it can be attributed to both.

If you look at our Champions League winning team in 2013 we had several German Internationals and academy players. We were always frugal on the market and preferred to go for less sought after options (Robben as a Madrid reject, players from the academy etc.) It's no coincidence that Bayern won the treble in 2013 with Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Müller and the next year Germany won the world cup with these same players, there was a golden generation and Bayern capitalised on that.

However in the 6 years since, transfers of players like Neymar and Mbappe have made fees skyrocket and all of a sudden a player that we could have snatched for 30 million now cost 60 million instead and German teams cannot keep up with this due to the insane TV revenue of the Premier League and Barca and Madrid. All of a sudden 50+1 is harder to sustain as whenever a great young player emerges in the Bundesliga the teams cannot compete with the wages and transfer fees offered by the Spanish and English clubs
BZ Squad member25
DanaSchofield is offline  
Reply With Quote
The above post is liked by:
Bayer (09-07-2019), dips82 (11-07-2019), FernandoBR (09-07-2019)
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Forum Jump


Follow BayernZone on Facebook Follow BayernZone on Twitter Contact Us

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:59.

Sponsors: Your link here? | Your link here? | Your link here?

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

Allianz Arena icon by luca1980 / CC BY / Recolored

©2009 - 2017 BayernZone.com
This is a fan forum that is in no way affiliated with FC Bayern München AG.