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Old 09-07-2019, 10:33   #436
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I think to a certain extent it can be attributed to both.

If you look at our Champions League winning team in 2013 we had several German Internationals and academy players. We were always frugal on the market and preferred to go for less sought after options (Robben as a Madrid reject, players from the academy etc.) It's no coincidence that Bayern won the treble in 2013 with Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Müller and the next year Germany won the world cup with these same players, there was a golden generation and Bayern capitalised on that.

However in the 6 years since, transfers of players like Neymar and Mbappe have made fees skyrocket and all of a sudden a player that we could have snatched for 30 million now cost 60 million instead and German teams cannot keep up with this due to the insane TV revenue of the Premier League and Barca and Madrid. All of a sudden 50+1 is harder to sustain as whenever a great young player emerges in the Bundesliga the teams cannot compete with the wages and transfer fees offered by the Spanish and English clubs
I think that is attributed to the disaster that happened in euro 2004 that first German team lost to second Czech rebublic team 3-2 and got eliminated. All the Bayern success and all in all BL and German NT success directly comes from that. Because back then they sat and changed everything for the best. For example every team is forced to have a second amatuer team. If you carefully look at the guys who won CL and were responsible for NT's WC campaign, were kids back then entering the most important phase of their careers. It's no coincidence that NT had so many talents in the same age range of 20-22 in 2010 EC for example.
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Old 09-07-2019, 12:31   #437
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Originally Posted by DanaSchofield View Post
I think to a certain extent it can be attributed to both.

If you look at our Champions League winning team in 2013 we had several German Internationals and academy players. We were always frugal on the market and preferred to go for less sought after options (Robben as a Madrid reject, players from the academy etc.) It's no coincidence that Bayern won the treble in 2013 with Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Müller and the next year Germany won the world cup with these same players, there was a golden generation and Bayern capitalised on that.

However in the 6 years since, transfers of players like Neymar and Mbappe have made fees skyrocket and all of a sudden a player that we could have snatched for 30 million now cost 60 million instead and German teams cannot keep up with this due to the insane TV revenue of the Premier League and Barca and Madrid. All of a sudden 50+1 is harder to sustain as whenever a great young player emerges in the Bundesliga the teams cannot compete with the wages and transfer fees offered by the Spanish and English clubs
I've said for awhile that we all know we aren't a club to break the bank on top notch talent. So how do we still compete with top notch clubs? IMO get crazy talented guys that are teenagers. Invest HUGELY into scouting and player development. Will it come with plenty of misses? Of course it will. But it will come with some successes as well which makes it all worth it. Its rare to see these teenage sensations to go for crazy amounts. Yes its happened with a few guys in recent years... but generally speaking they are all affordable for us. Get them before they become 100mill players.
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Old 09-07-2019, 14:28   #438
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Originally Posted by DanaSchofield View Post
I think to a certain extent it can be attributed to both.

If you look at our Champions League winning team in 2013 we had several German Internationals and academy players. We were always frugal on the market and preferred to go for less sought after options (Robben as a Madrid reject, players from the academy etc.) It's no coincidence that Bayern won the treble in 2013 with Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Kroos, Schweinsteiger and Müller and the next year Germany won the world cup with these same players, there was a golden generation and Bayern capitalised on that.

However in the 6 years since, transfers of players like Neymar and Mbappe have made fees skyrocket and all of a sudden a player that we could have snatched for 30 million now cost 60 million instead and German teams cannot keep up with this due to the insane TV revenue of the Premier League and Barca and Madrid. All of a sudden 50+1 is harder to sustain as whenever a great young player emerges in the Bundesliga the teams cannot compete with the wages and transfer fees offered by the Spanish and English clubs
I don't see either as having much to do at all with 50+1. For example, 50+1 isn't the reason why we produced Lahm, Kroos, Alaba, Schweinsteiger, Muller, and Badstuber - our youth development was. If we are unable to compete for the most expensive transfers (and honestly we always have been), then why have we stopped developing our youth players? Ever since our 2nd team fell to the 4th division in 2011(?), we've had absolutely terrible youth development. We've produced effectively nothing since Alaba, nearly a decade ago. That says more to me about Bayern's shit-tier long-term planning than it does anything about 50+1.
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Old 09-07-2019, 15:16   #439
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The 50+1 rule isn't the reason Bundesliga clubs "can't spend", the real reason is the unwillingness of the German mentality to spend and take on debt because money is meant to be saved and all debt is bad. Shit, not long ago Clemens Tönnies said how proud he is that Schalke is debt free and not open to external financing. So, abolishing the 50+1 rule doesn't fix the problem, it would just make it possible to get rid of such mentality in club management across the league. In German football financial success comes before sporting success, and that's not because of 50+1, but on the contrary 50+1 is the product of it.
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Old 09-07-2019, 16:24   #440
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The 50+1 rule isn't the reason Bundesliga clubs "can't spend", the real reason is the unwillingness of the German mentality to spend and take on debt because money is meant to be saved and all debt is bad. Shit, not long ago Clemens Tönnies said how proud he is that Schalke is debt free and not open to external financing. So, abolishing the 50+1 rule doesn't fix the problem, it would just make it possible to get rid of such mentality in club management across the league. In German football financial success comes before sporting success, and that's not because of 50+1, but on the contrary 50+1 is the product of it.
There's also some clubs like Werder Bremen wasting their money when they were qualifying a lot for european competitions. Bad administration is a thing in Bundesliga clubs.

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I think that is attributed to the disaster that happened in euro 2004 that first German team lost to second Czech rebublic team 3-2 and got eliminated. All the Bayern success and all in all BL and German NT success directly comes from that. Because back then they sat and changed everything for the best. For example every team is forced to have a second amatuer team. If you carefully look at the guys who won CL and were responsible for NT's WC campaign, were kids back then entering the most important phase of their careers. It's no coincidence that NT had so many talents in the same age range of 20-22 in 2010 EC for example.
It actually comes from the 2000 Euro that Germany finished last with 1 point, that's why youth development became such a focus.

Last edited by L4nd3r; 09-07-2019 at 16:28.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:56   #441
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I don't see either as having much to do at all with 50+1. For example, 50+1 isn't the reason why we produced Lahm, Kroos, Alaba, Schweinsteiger, Muller, and Badstuber - our youth development was. If we are unable to compete for the most expensive transfers (and honestly we always have been), then why have we stopped developing our youth players? Ever since our 2nd team fell to the 4th division in 2011(?), we've had absolutely terrible youth development. We've produced effectively nothing since Alaba, nearly a decade ago. That says more to me about Bayern's shit-tier long-term planning than it does anything about 50+1.
I do actually agree with most of what you say, I was just trying to present a potential reasoning for the opposing viewpoint. I also think it's important to note that my point in the second paragraph was that the mid table clubs in the Bundesliga will have a lot less money than mid table Premier League clubs.

I wasn't saying that 50+1 was the reason that we produced those treble winning players but rather that it was possibly the reason we were more willing to rely on them early in their career rather than just buying someone else. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are currently very few players breaking through to their first teams in England given how much money the clubs have to spend
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:56   #442
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I do actually agree with most of what you say, I was just trying to present a potential reasoning for the opposing viewpoint. I also think it's important to note that my point in the second paragraph was that the mid table clubs in the Bundesliga will have a lot less money than mid table Premier League clubs.

I wasn't saying that 50+1 was the reason that we produced those treble winning players but rather that it was possibly the reason we were more willing to rely on them early in their career rather than just buying someone else. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are currently very few players breaking through to their first teams in England given how much money the clubs have to spend
The reason behind that isn't 50+1 but mainly TV income.

TV Distribution: Bundesliga Needs To Learn From English Premier League

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Whether the gap to the very top can ever be closed under the current distribution model remains to be seen, however. Overall, the league will receive €1.24 billion in television money in 2019/20 (to be shared with Bundesliga 2).

In comparison, the English Premier League receives £1.7 billion (€1.9 billion) in television revenue per season under its current deal. This season every club was assured a base sum of £79.4 million (€91.5 million) plus bonuses in the number of games shown on television and place money.
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Old 10-07-2019, 13:09   #443
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Old 10-07-2019, 14:05   #444
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And all of them except Sancho will be ours
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Old 10-07-2019, 15:33   #445
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And all of them except Sancho will be ours
Havertz most definitely won't be ours
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