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View Poll Results: My understanding of Guardiola's new tactics at Bayern is best described as:
I have little or no idea what Guardiola is trying to do. 2 4.35%
I understand what he is trying to do in some cases, but there are many things I don’t understand. 17 36.96%
I understand what he is trying to do in many cases, but there are some things I don’t understand. 22 47.83%
I understand everything he is trying to do. 5 10.87%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-08-2013, 21:36   #31
Bender318
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I'm pretty sure Rafinha is the only one that enjoys Pep's madness.
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:44   #32
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Guys , Pep wasn't appointed to keep the same system
Imagine the opposite: Pep won the sixtuple with barca , and then retired and Jupp took his place ... do you really think that Jupp will keep the same system and won't work with his system and plans ?

when a new coach is hired, he won't use the same system of the former coach, even if it was successful
so let's enjoy the season and hopefully we won't end trophy less
What is this common sense? How dare you! Kidding aside, I completely agree

@Woland - Great post. I've watched Barcelona quite a lot during the Pep days and what you've written pretty much sums up all my knowledge of him as well. This is why I have complete faith in him. His work ethic and dedication is second to none.
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:50   #33
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So, as promised, my thoughts.

As little modesty as there might be in my next statement, I think my predictions during pre-season were mostly spot on. All of the chaotic fear that the pressure was gone and that we were going to stick to 4-1-4-1 and that our squad would be obliterated in favour of the new signings and whatnot have failed to withstand the test of an official match. All of our starting players were here last season, with only one (Kirchhoff) newcomer playing the match.

The formation looked different though, with Guardiola favouring a bit more attacking side than we had before. My take on it is here - basically, Lahm plays a double role as RB and DM, following any counterplay with a diagonal movement towards the right, which means that we can have one extra attacking player, since Lahm covers two defensive roles. That's why our attacking looked more fluid and dynamic - some of Pep's passing has also found his way into our tactics, which was evidenced by many triangulations during the match. I was very pleased with our attack today. Both Robben and Ribery were outstanding.

At the same time, the defense has to adapt to the fact that there is one player less defending. This was evidenced by Boateng "zoning out" during the first half, when Neuer was forced into a spectacular save around the half hour mark. He ran towards both the right and the left, without knowing whether he was supposed to cover for Lahm in that situation, and gave away an opening where Gladbach took the shot. It takes some time to get used to it, and I don't doubt them for an instant.

We also saw a new side of Bayern: for the last 15-20 minutes Pep made some defensive changes, into a formation more akin to a 4-3-3, with Rafinha taking Lahm's place as a RB and Lahm cementing himself as the right central midfielder, thus having tighter control on the right side of the pitch, with Kroos as the left central midfielder and Kirchhoff as the DM. We could even think of it as a 4-2-3-1 when Kroos attacked, but with two DMs instead of a creative CM and a destructive DM. When Javi came in, our 4-3-3 was cemented, with a total of 7 defense oriented players and an attack fast enough to go on the counter.

These are variations which I think add a lot of depth to our play. Pep tried out the versatility as well as reliability of his players to see what was possible and what wasn't. He probably figured out that he can rely on Rafinha as RB and Lahm as RCM when he needs to go defensive, as well as Kirchhoff being solid enough to deserve some tryouts. As with all experiments, some things worked, some didn't, and there's surely many more surprises in store in the next games to come. I have to say, it's the first time in a long time that I've been surprised by Bayern, seeing a lineup which oddly worked and makes sense when you think of it, and which at the same time is different from what we had.

I would never dare say that I fully understand what Guardiola is up to - he's a really clever coach, and he's shown that today. I bet there are a lot of minutiae I've overlooked or movements I missed, but I think I get the bigger picture here: he has an extremely strong team whose strength lies not in a certain formation, but in versatility, and he's looking for ways to exploit that versatility to its fullest potential beyond what Jupp found. Which isn't to say he won't use that (since it's as of now the strongest weapon in Bayern's stash) but it does mean that we retain the unpredictability we need to establish ourselves once again.

I thought it was a brilliant match and it left me hungry to see what else Guardiola is planning, as well as wanting to see this team fully adapt to these variations when needed and such outgrow last season's might. I know it might seem like a lot of conclusions to reach after one match but I think it was different enough from last season to be this excited, as well as surprised by the team. So I went for "I understand what he is trying to do in many cases, but there are some things I don’t understand." Not because there are particular things which don't make sense to me, but because there are a lot of things which obviously need time to play out.

Just my two cents.
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Old 09-08-2013, 22:21   #34
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Agreed! How can we expect Pep to play Jupp's system? Imo the only one who knows how to play Jupp's system is Jupp asking Pep to play like someone else is unreasonable....
Yes.Also a coach with authority and self respect wouldn't copy and paste another coaches system.Even if the system was successful,which it was,it would be a slap in Pep's face to just continue using Heynckes's one.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:26   #35
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There's nothing I can really add to Garci's post except my happiness at having so many great posters.
I'm gradually figuring out what Guardiola is trying to do now, and I'm starting to have more faith in him. Kirchoff was quite impressive for me.
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Old 10-08-2013, 14:38   #36
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Thanks, everyone who has posted here in this thread since I last posted in it myself - particularly Woland and GarciLP, who made very interesting and informative contributions to the topic.

Unless something unusually interesting is written after this, I intend to make this my last post in it. The thread has served my original purpose, and I think it is time to let it fade away and, in future, post anything further in one of the other Guardiola threads.

It was all about understanding Guardiola's tactics. I felt that neither (a) Guardiola's tactics, nor (b) the fact that they were experimental and might be discontinued, were well understood, and I felt that a lot of opposition here may have been related to that lack of understanding. The poll indicates that around 50% of those who voted were unsure about the majority of the tactics, and that substantiates my initial feeling to some extent. I thought I had set the poll to be a public poll - ie showing who voted for what - but it didn't work, and I am unable to trace the relationship between understanding and opposition any further as a result. It doesn't matter that much in the end.

For the record, my own vote, which was the first to be recoded, was option 3 - I think I understand many of Guardiola's tactics, but there are some which I don't understand. I see that 3 members voted for the option 4 - they feel they understand all Guardiola's tactics. I appreciated the voting, and don't want to sound too skeptical or disrespectful, but I might venture to add that I was a little surprised that some felt that they had that level of understanding.

Once again, thanks everyone.
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Old 10-08-2013, 17:48   #37
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Originally Posted by Badger View Post
Thanks, everyone who has posted here in this thread since I last posted in it myself - particularly Woland and GarciLP, who made very interesting and informative contributions to the topic.

Unless something unusually interesting is written after this, I intend to make this my last post in it. The thread has served my original purpose, and I think it is time to let it fade away and, in future, post anything further in one of the other Guardiola threads.

It was all about understanding Guardiola's tactics. I felt that neither (a) Guardiola's tactics, nor (b) the fact that they were experimental and might be discontinued, were well understood, and I felt that a lot of opposition here may have been related to that lack of understanding. The poll indicates that around 50% of those who voted were unsure about the majority of the tactics, and that substantiates my initial feeling to some extent. I thought I had set the poll to be a public poll - ie showing who voted for what - but it didn't work, and I am unable to trace the relationship between understanding and opposition any further as a result. It doesn't matter that much in the end.

For the record, my own vote, which was the first to be recoded, was option 3 - I think I understand many of Guardiola's tactics, but there are some which I don't understand. I see that 3 members voted for the option 4 - they feel they understand all Guardiola's tactics. I appreciated the voting, and don't want to sound too skeptical or disrespectful, but I might venture to add that I was a little surprised that some felt that they had that level of understanding.

Once again, thanks everyone.
It is in fact a public poll. Just click one of the vote values and you'll see who voted for whom.
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Old 17-08-2013, 18:32   #38
mea95
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I posted before some reasons why Guardiola plays with a high defensive line , but maybe it wasn't THAT clear for some , so I searched for this video , since watching the video is always better
It's called the 6 seconds rule



it shows you how Barca was winning the ball after losing it , they try to make the pitch smaller and give the opponents less options to make passes ...
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Old 17-08-2013, 18:33   #39
Springbok51
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One of Pep's quotes summarizes this perfectly:

'You win the ball back when there are thirty metres to their goal not eighty.'
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Old 17-08-2013, 19:08   #40
mea95
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Originally Posted by Springbok51 View Post
One of Pep's quotes summarizes this perfectly:

'You win the ball back when there are thirty metres to their goal not eighty.'
I never heard of this


anyway , I want to add another thing (and that will my last post here because I'm becoming annoying )

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Originally Posted by mea95 View Post
4-he loves to attack and to have possession , because this will put pressure on the opponent and make them nervous because they are running on the pitch without touching the ball , so they will be prone to make errors and can't be disciplined for the whole 90 mins, thus gaps will appear in their defense and other factors to help the team scoring goals
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