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View Poll Results: My understanding of Guardiola's new tactics at Bayern is best described as:
I have little or no idea what Guardiola is trying to do. 2 4.35%
I understand what he is trying to do in some cases, but there are many things I don’t understand. 17 36.96%
I understand what he is trying to do in many cases, but there are some things I don’t understand. 22 47.83%
I understand everything he is trying to do. 5 10.87%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-08-2013, 20:32   #16
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Originally Posted by GarciLP View Post
Badger, if you don't mind, I'll reply tomorrow after the game. I think I have an idea of what Guardiola's up to but it's subject to change after I see for myself how he handles a definitively competitive scenario.
Absolutely no problem. I'll look forward to your reply, whenever it appears - always a good read.

The timing is relatively unimportant. The poll should remain open for 10 days, and the thread should remain open indefinetely. Opening this thread was a side-effect of my writing a blog article "Guardiola's Laboratory" for BayernZone. I've told Trim I'd pass it on to him tonight, in the hope he'd upload it sometime before the start of the first Bundesliga match tomorrow night. If you are preparing a detailed response to some question in the thread above, you may want to deliberately read or deliberately avoid reading the article before you respond. This is all peripheral background detail, thought - any reply from you will be welcome anytime.
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Old 08-08-2013, 20:40   #17
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While I was talking to my friend (who is a Barcelona fan) , we talked about Pep and he told me the following points:

1-it'll be a tough season for Pep and Bayern since he is playing a new system and changing the whole philosophy , because the Germans aren't used to play such a system , while the Spaniards are practicing this to their youth teams

2-his transfer deals are shit , but Barca's board are also shit since they were giving him a green light for every transfer , while Bayern's board has strong character and has a word in every transfer so that won't be a problem for us (he gave me Sanchez as an example)

3-he hates big squads and he prefers to promote youngsters and players from the reserves (example: he sold Eto'o and other players (maybe Ronaldinho but I'm not sure) and he promoted players like Cuenca , Tello , Pedro , Busquets , Thiago , Sergi Roberto ...)

4-he loves to attack and to have possession , because this will put pressure on the opponent and make them nervous because they are running on the pitch without touching the ball , so they will be prone to make errors and can't be disciplined for the whole 90 mins, thus gaps will appear in their defense and other factors to help the team scoring goals

5-the players improve a lot under Pep (he told me that Pique , Busquets , Iniesta , Pedro were shit before Guardiola , and the fans were angry because he was starting with them and they were having doubts just like most of us)

6-Busquets was a CM in Barca II and not a DM ... he converted him to a DM , and his role is more like a sweeper who'll be like a 3rd CB when the ball is with Barca , and this will make Pique and Puyol play wide and give freedom to the fullbacks to go forward (we saw Alves upfront for almost 90 mins) , so that's why he wants to put Schweini as #6

7-he plays with a high defensive line to avoid counter attacks , so when his players lose the ball , the DM and the 2 CBs will press on the opponent's attackers (with the fullbacks who are already playing as pseudo-DMs) , this will close the gap and give the opponent less space to switch positions and less freedom to make passes , thus they will lose the ball in a very short time


Sorry for the long post , but I liked the discussion and wanted to share the ideas here


anyway , I voted for option #3 (I know many of Pep's ideas but have some questions and doubts in some decisions)
Thanks for that, mea95. It was all very interesting, but I was particularly impressed by points 4 and 7, as they very closely echo some of my own conclusions. I'll not add more for now, but I hope to return to these topics again.
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Old 09-08-2013, 14:50   #18
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I like what he is trying to do, he's obviously a smart coach but bayern are not Barcelona and German teams play much more differently than Spanish teams. I loved the way Bayern attacked last year and now it seems pep is trying to slow our game down, maybe I'm wrong but that's what I have been seeing so far
I also think it's ilusional, maybe because of short passes.

But even if it is true sometimes, I did once heard a quite logical explanation. It was Mourinho (yes Mourinho) 2003/2004 season with Porto (CL winner). Porto, in that season, had a quite impressive high pressing style.
So a journalist ask him how could the team endure that all the game.
He replyed that when the team loose the ball the players must give their best to recover her again. That makes the players exhausted, so its wise that they don't tryed another offensive play. They must move the ball to a safe zone, pass it, to slow down the game, leaving time for the most tired players recover their lungs. Only then they tried another offensive play, repeating the process.
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Old 09-08-2013, 15:04   #19
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I also think it's ilusional, maybe because of short passes.

But even if it is true sometimes, I did once heard a quite logical explanation. It was Mourinho (yes Mourinho) 2003/2004 season with Porto (CL winner). Porto, in that season, had a quite impressive high pressing style.
So a journalist ask him how could the team endure that all the game.
He replyed that when the team loose the ball the players must give their best to recover her again. That makes the players exhausted, so its wise that they don't tryed another offensive play. They must move the ball to a safe zone, pass it, to slow down the game, leaving time for the most tired players recover their lungs. Only then they tried another offensive play, repeating the process.
I'd never heard that one before, but it sounds completely logical (especially for the latter stage of a game). Thanks.
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Old 09-08-2013, 15:15   #20
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I see what he is doing and wonder why? I ask anyone who agrees with the change why? Wasn't last year good enough? Didn't Bayern destroy Pep's Barca style last year? Why do we want to learn a losing style of play? Maybe Guardiola is pissed his tactics suck and he is trying to prove they are. Well anyway Bayern will win today 2-0 despite the Pep's boring style.
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Old 09-08-2013, 16:26   #21
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I see what he is doing and wonder why?

Because all coaches have a preference style of their own?

Mourinho wouldn't come to Barcelona to start playing tiki-taka
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:03   #22
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Bayern didn't destroy Pep's Barca style, Bayern destroyed a Barcelona that was quite different than that of Pep. If you have watched them you'd know..Please go read Badger's brilliant blog and stop your hating at least for a little while.
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:47   #23
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Because all coaches have a preference style of their own?

Mourinho wouldn't come to Barcelona to start playing tiki-taka
Rightb now barcelona is not willing changing their football style, So if you can't play passing game you will not coach barcelona. simple as that.

I said right now,
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:49   #24
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Bayern didn't destroy Pep's Barca style, Bayern destroyed a Barcelona that was quite different than that of Pep. If you have watched them you'd know..Please go read Badger's brilliant blog and stop your hating at least for a little while.
This what some fellow forumers don't understand, It's not a style who beat a style, it's players who beat players.
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:01   #25
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Rightb now barcelona is not willing changing their football style, So if you can't play passing game you will not coach barcelona. simple as that.

I said right now,
Well, the Barcelona-style of game is possession and passing, a lot of coaches are on the same line. But what Jupp did with Bayern was a bit unique.
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:35   #26
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Well, the Barcelona-style of game is possession and passing, a lot of coaches are on the same line. But what Jupp did with Bayern was a bit unique.
a lot of coach if not all plays 4231, only barcelona plays with one DM, this is unique!!!!
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:40   #27
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Well, the Barcelona-style of game is possession and passing, a lot of coaches are on the same line. But what Jupp did with Bayern was a bit unique.
This bayern, for me ( My references are barcelona teams) looks like the barca 2006 with less magic( ronaldinho) at that time barcelona played severel times with 2 DM: edmilson motta, xavi was injured, and sometimes with van bommel.
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:42   #28
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Guys , Pep wasn't appointed to keep the same system
Imagine the opposite: Pep won the sixtuple with barca , and then retired and Jupp took his place ... do you really think that Jupp will keep the same system and won't work with his system and plans ?

when a new coach is hired, he won't use the same system of the former coach, even if it was successful
so let's enjoy the season and hopefully we won't end trophy less
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:46   #29
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Guys , Pep wasn't appointed to keep the same system
Imagine the opposite: Pep won the sixtuple with barca , and then retired and Jupp took his place ... do you really think that Jupp will keep the same system and won't work with his system and plans ?

when a new coach is hired, he won't use the same system of the former coach, even if it was successful
so let's enjoy the season and hopefully we won't end trophy less
Agreed! How can we expect Pep to play Jupp's system? Imo the only one who knows how to play Jupp's system is Jupp asking Pep to play like someone else is unreasonable....
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Old 09-08-2013, 20:15   #30
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Awesome thread for my first post on the site! I'd like to put in my two cents as I have the good fortunate of having taken a particular interest in following and studying Barcelona quite seriously only shortly before Guardiola took charge of the side prior to the 08/09 season. I may not be able to offer the best direct answer to the question in terms of going into detail on tactical changes as I've had only a casual interest in Bayern until it was announced that Guardiola would be Jupp's successor, but I am very familiar with Guardiola and feel like I might be able to offer a little extra insight for any Bayern fans for whom Pep and Barca were more perhaps more peripheral figures than they have been to me for the past several years. With that being said, here are a few pieces of food for thought:

When he started his job as Barcelona's new coach in the summer of '08, it was almost his first order of business to push for the exits of Ronaldinho, Deco, Eto'o and Henry. That's a pretty serious list of big name players and I can still remember it being pretty controversial. Of the four, only two of them left (Dinho and Deco) and the other two impressed him enough during pre-season to earn starting spots in the front line, but that incident speaks volumes: he's not a man who's afraid of rocking the boat and not likely to be intimidated by big names/reputations. If he thinks a change is needed he'll probably go for it regardless of what kind of scrutiny it might put him under.

I've seen a fair amount of Bayern fans who are not happy with the prospect of change, adopting a kind of 'if it's not broken, don't fix it' attitude. For me, there were only two constants which identified Barcelona's play under Pep: the players played with extremely high confidence, and they looked to control the tempo of the game. Beyond that, everything was subject to change, it's not as though they simply played that exciting and intense 'go for the throat' attacking football for which they were so often praised every minute of every match. Everything was changing all the time in Barca, the tempo would fluctuate appropriately in any given match between outrageously high to very mellow, Xavi's role changed quite a bit as he went from receiving every third pass to sharing his responsibility to control the match more and more with Busquest, Iniesta and Messi, there was the famous experiment with Zlatan, Messi played more centrally and then began to increasingly act as a 4th CM, 3 at the back and then a hybrid between 3 & 4 at the back were both toyed with quite a bit, etc etc. There were a ton of changes on small and large scales throughout his tenure there and most of them resulted in more success and trophies. Quite probably he's making more changes to this Bayern side than Jupp would have had he stayed on another season but that's only natural as he's a new coach. I think it's safe to say you can expect most of the changes he imposes here to pan out nicely in the long run. As we saw with the one season of Ibra at Barca, he's not afraid to admit something isn't working and give up trying to force it.

Regarding concerns about the midfield an in particular, the use of a natural DM: I've seen worries voiced that there won't be enough steel in the midfield, most commonly on the subject of Javi switching to CB from DM and I figure it'd be good to address that. For me, one of the most underrated aspects of his coaching at Barca was how well he managed two-legged ties. Barca were often criticized for their failure to perform well away from home as they more often then not would settle for draws. I think this was a matter of Pep intelligently playing it safe away from home where very often the pitch conditions were far less suitable to Barca's intelligent/technical passing game than at home. I'll point out that out of the twelve away legs his Barca side played in Europe, Guardiola started a midfield trio of Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets only one time, and that was against an Arsenal side which looked to control the ball in a somewhat similar manner to Barca at the time, and were totally outclassed in midfield. On 10 of the other 11 occasions, Pep started one of Yaya Toure or the less known Seydou Keita in midfield, both players who offer more physicality than any the other three in games where that quality was a little more necessary. The midfield lineup was one of the big failings of Tito against Bayern this past year IMO. In short, I do not think you need to worry about Guardiola underestimating the importance of strength and steel in midfield.

I was gonna keep going but I just realized this is already quite a long post and I want to focus on the match so I may add more later. In short, the man is a very intelligent coach who's dedication and meticulous, obsessive work ethic is outstanding. He knows he's not coaching Barcelona anymore and I don't think he'll ruin this side, in fact I'd be pretty shocked if Bayern don't win the league comfortably and give a very strong showing in Europe.
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